Saturday, April 11, 2009

ABC Q&A 9/4/09

I missed it.
Here's the link.

Tony Burke, Federal Minister for Agriculture;
Helen Coonan, shadow finance minister;
John Hewson, former Liberal leader;
Jane Caro, social commentator; and
Andrew Boe, Brisbane based criminal lawyer. (He's also an activist for various causes.)

Jane Caro.
Restaurants have decided to offer cut-price meals due to the financial situation. Comparing banks and restaurants she says:

The restaurants are doing it because if you go into a restaurant there's nobody in them, so they're discounting their meals, not to stimulate the economy...
Hullo? What does she think encouraging people to spend in the restaurant will do? Not only will it possibly keep the restaurant business afloat, but that money will enter the system, as it's been spent - and it will stay in Australia for the most part. Not too bright.

John Hewson speaks about the banks getting us into the situation we are in now - I don't think the Australian banks are guilty of the proliferation of sub-prime loans, though I do think they are guilty of lending money to some people who hadn't really done their sums about what would be left to spend on necessities after the mortgage and all associated home ownership costs were taken out. I looked selling my house and buying a house a few years ago. In the meantime I would have to buy the second property and try to sell the first. I needed to have an interest only loan to help me with the two mortgages. The bank was quite prepared to lend me another 250k, as long as I had $900 per month left to live on. Sorry, for me $900/month to cover everything after the mortgage (including health insurance, other insurances including house, contents, car), utilities, rates, etc. is not enough. I know people live on less, but they don't have health insurance or other expenses which you have when you own/are purchasing a house. They factored in my renting out the home I have, but I would have to pay income tax on the rent I received from that and it would only cover about a third if that of the mortgage on the second property. I passed the bank's offer. (Looking back, the property I liked was just beautiful, I really wanted it but wasn't prepared to take the risk of losing what I have to buy it - maybe I should have taken that risk!) The repayments were horrific - over $400 per week!

(I'm still reading the transcript...)

New anti-consorting laws aimed at bikie groups... what's wrong with the laws we already have?

Question to Boe about human rights and a charter of Australian human rights. (So tell me, what human rights trump others? What human rights trump the law?)

Mention made of the "Bikie Gang" Ulysses. RAOTFLMAO. It's a social club, isn't it? Heaven help us that they get together and wreak havoc in the burbs and country towns....


Tony Burke is aptly named.

Oh please. Question from the audience:

MEAGHAN DAVIES: Possibly most concerning about the chicken sex tape is that 44,797 out of 69,735 Australian polled today didn't find it offensive. Are Australians becoming too tolerant to violence and the degradation of women?
Chicken sex tape.

Jane Caro, on the chicken tape, is pushing the barrow that feminists haven't educated these young men very well and there's still a place for feminism to counter such dreadful displays as this and ... blah blah blah. Pushing the feminazi barrow. Great. That's going to achieve a lot.

Shoot me, I think I agree with Andrew Boe.

ANDREW BOE: ... Look, can I just firstly just agree with what was said on the left, save for I don't think it's just a gender issue. I think white young men in first world countries need a lot to learn. I think we are abusing the privileges we have in this country. I accept I'm not white myself but I'm saying that in this society, at the moment, powerful, rich, young men in sporting clubs and in those sorts of groups feel as if they won't be restrained by the society. They are heroes and they are really allowed to do whatever they wish to do, be it a sexist thing, be it a racist thing, be it something that's anti-religious or whatever. Men need to get it. It's no longer acceptable and I think unless we, all of us, embrace that with a bit more seriousness, whether it be sporting bodies or government funding, it won't change.
John Hewson echoed a few of my thoughts on bad behaviour of sports "celebrities" (for wont of a better word). (I personally think the whole thing was a feminazi beat up - as BoaB has pointed out on Bolt's blog - or was it Blair's? - today, the whole thing with the red-headed rubber chook (Gillard) and the pasty plucked chook (Kevin), was a spoof of them.

Although it's a shame a silly recording of a stupid adolescent skit involving a rubber chicken and a frozen chicken has caused this kind of ridiculous reaction, over reaction!

Coonan agrees that it is an horrific occurrence, this terrible sexist tape.

Caro believes that progress has been made because we're talking about it now, whereas it would have been pushed under the carpet before. Caro is talking about girls, and not chickens.

There's a lot of (indistinct) in the transcripts. And when Tone repeats the comment it's funny 'cos it's STILL (indistinct).

Now, onto different stuff...

About Rudd's popularity...
JOHN HEWSON: Look, in the circumstances of a - yeah. In the circumstances of a crisis, which we have - a global economic and financial crisis - Rudd has had a unique opportunity to actually make a mark and it's hard to actually fault, in those circumstances, the fact that he's there every day. And if you add to that the fact that Kevin Rudd is the master of the 24 hour media cycle - I mean, I thought Howard was good. This guy is terrific. He can control that cycle one day, so he's on broadband today, he's on Obama tomorrow, he's in Indonesia the next day. You know, an opposition leader - I'm amazed that Malcolm has got 18 per cent, quite frankly. I mean, it's very hard. It's very hard.
For crying out loud. Rudd is a CELEBRITY. That's how he's doing it.

Obamessiah and KRudd our hero, it's gonna be a kinder, gentler world, we'll have a society not an economy*...
ANDREW BOE: I thought Mr Turnbull was looking more and more haggard these days because can I just say something a little bit serious about something that's obviously treated lightly. It's just great to have politicians like Obama, and Rudd, for that matter, who are proposing a vision for the way we want to be. I think the one thing - we live in the first world. Comparatively we are doing really, really well, except for the black fellas, and - but the legacy that, for me, the Howard years left was you just didn't feel comfortable with what we were doing to - to everybody else in the world and to those who were weaker than us in our society and I think the one thing those two men give to us is some sense of hope that there is a better way to do all this and I think that should be (indistinct).
Oh, where's me spew bag?
This is fascinating. Coonan says that Rudd's delivered nothing, just talk. BIG talk. Then Burke replies, it's worth putting here in it's entirety.
HELEN COONAN: Yes. Look, I think that this is a very difficult time in the economic cycle and so far as I can tell, no one's ever shot Santa Clause yet, so that Mr Rudd giving out a lot of money and doing the 24 hour news cycle, saying a lot of things that obviously people want to hear, is a very difficult thing to counter. But I just caution this way and this also won't be a very popular statement. Tony started off with that, saying he didn't agree and it wouldn't be popular. You won't agree and I'm sure this isn't popular, but you have to be very careful in the end that the visions actually turn into real and concrete action. So far we haven't seen Mr Rudd actually deliver anything other than broad statements, obviously big statements, certainly statements that are well received by the electorate, but so far the rubber hasn't hit the road yet and you have to be very careful when you look at the fact that we've now got $80 billion worth of spending, $200 billion worth of debt, huge tax increases coming down the pipeline to get you all to pay for all this, that this doesn't turn into an hallucination.


TONY JONES: Okay. A very brief comment from Tony Burke. Can you do that?

TONY BURKE: Oh, gee, it's hard after that. Look, just put simply, to say that major changes haven't happened, I think belittles the significance of issues that were settled at the last election. The apology to the stolen generation was real. Ratifying the Kyoto Protocol was real. And in terms of why is it that Australia has been ahead of the curve and, yes, we are feeling the global recession but we are in a much better space than comparable economies, with the United States now having five million unemployed join the cues, China having 20 million unemployed join the cues. The stimulus packages are part of that. That's real.
I think Burke has a bit of a disconnect with what is real and what is symbolic. It goes on, you must read it. Link to transcript.

*that's because the economy has gone down the shit chute because of the GFC and idiotic policies of governments to shore things up and prolong the pain and suffering. Aussies are fine if they have jobs, but that's rapidly changing now.


Egg said...

As the tape was made by Himbos, perhaps Mzzz Caro should seek input from the Bimbo demographic, viz: Paris Hilton et al?

Caz said...

Kyoto and saying "sorry" happened, err, more than a year ago?

So, Rudd hasn't done anything since his first couple of months in office. Hardly a record of "major change".

Ms Caro, as s "social commentator" is a bit of a dill.

Chook tape: sheesh, I'm so weary of hearing that it was a prank "gone wrong". Huh? How did it go wrong, was it edited badly, were chooks accidentally killed?

It might have been puerile, but really, who cares. Grown men have done far worse - and on film.

Skeeter said...

I have been unable to force myself to watch the tape or listen to the sound track.
But, judging from comments on the various blogs, the video is not really demeaning of women and is puerile rather than pornographic.
The sound track (being from a famous bip bop or something) is another matter and is quite vile.
The band performing the sound track is Obama's favourite. Maybe this is preventing people from criticising the part of the chicken-sex that is really demeaning of women.
It's so important to avoid racism these days.

WV: redudef? Maybe from sticking his fingers in his ears.

stackja1945 said...

Sean Penn won an Oscar for impersonating a Milk man. Now we are been told be worried about a chicken man? Rudd impersonating a PM should be more of a worry.

Egg said...

Caro: "feminists haven't educated these young men ..."

What is it with the Left and "educating"* folk?
*"Educating" or "counselling" (read: instructing)?

This has a ring of South Park's parody of left wing liberals' PC culture in the 'Camp Tolerance' episode.

*If "educating" is enlightening by the more experienced, then Boe's point is the more valid in that gender relations (training/counselling) should come from the same gender, i.e. "women (Venutions/whatever) have an expectation of being treated in a certain manner; here's an example of how we (males/Martians/whatever) can behave in this given situation" and so the reverse bias test: "men (Martians/whatever) have an expectation of being treated in a certain manner; here's an example of how we (females/Venutions/whatever) can behave in this given situation", non?

Skeeter said...

Tony Burke on reality:
The apology to the stolen generation was real. Ratifying the Kyoto Protocol was real.
No they weren't. They were examples of rabbiting rhetoric.
What was real was the effect that both of them, especially the latter, had on the Australian economy.

BTW, Who do we blame for the spelling of the "cues" being joined by the unemployed?
A schoolteacher's daughter would be my least likely suspect. I'm betting on the ABC transcribers.

BTW #2

"And in terms of why is it that..."

Who's prose comes to mind when you read a sentence beginning with those words?

kae said...

Yes Skeeter

Cues. I was going to put a note on it however I decided as it was a quote ...

I have transcribed and usually when doing that job you don't hear what's being said in context, you just hear words and type the words. However, you should read what you've transcribed so that you can check the context of what you've written.
I suppose they were in a hurry - or just couldn't spell.]

Definitely, the Krudd impersonation of a PM is a worry. It's not even a good one!

I think they insist on males being educated (indoctrinated?) by feminists. I can see problems with that. They learn they're all rapists who hate women.

Psst, Skeeter
I haven't seen it all either - puerile, why would I bother?

kae said...

"Social Commenter", that's kinda like being a futurist, huh?

Egg said...

"they insist on males being educated (indoctrinated?) by feminists"

Yeah, I watched the vid & Caro identified herself as a "Feminazi".
Her main moan was actually about younger, educated women not wanting to be identified as feminists* and she also attacked the critics of modern feminism: feminazis are a minority (even among women) - who'd've thunk it?

*My guess is that Gen X & Y wymmin get on better with their dads and so are less misandric and view gender warriors such as Caro as relics from the past ...

Caz said...

Yes Kae, much like being a "futurist"! The job description you have when you don't have a real job - "social commentator" covers no end of non-employment.

Egg - let's not get all carried away. Women still earn significantly less for doing work identical to that of men; women's representation in boardrooms and running companies has decreased over the last decade, to an even lesser token of a couple of percent; thousands of women die every week in childbirth; women are routinely mutilated in many countries; women are raped, beaten, murdered, all because they exist, or worse, because they reject the romantic gestures of some guy who doesn't appeal to them; women are still labeled as whores or god's police, they are still labeled as sad, bad or mad. A recent Australian study found that much greater than 50% of teenage boys and teenage girls didn't think there was anything wrong with men bashing up women. The case of pop star Rhianon, bashed by her equally famous boyfriend, has seen young girls across the whole of the US defending him and claiming that "she must have done something to provoke him", it was entirely her fault. And so it goes.

Let's get a grip on what has been achieved - and lost. Gen X and Y have no use for feminism? Sure, but the lives they lead would not exist at all if not for intelligent, brave women taking a stand over the last 100 years.

Claiming that it's all superfluous now is - like feminism itself - the luxury of upper middle class white women.

I don't know anything about Caro, have never heard of her, so I don't know if she's a "gender warrior" or what she is, but if she thinks a video of a rubber chook and a defrosted chook carcass is a low act, then maybe she needs to get out in the real world instead of occupying herself with the childish antics of overpaid footballers.

Indeed, I'm utterly fed up with footballers being held up to a higher standard than the rest of us, constantly turned into headline news because they've pulled a groin muscle or drank a beer in public. Good grief. They play sport, they kick a leather ball! They're not messiahs!

Besides, any man who needs to be "educated" to treat women with respect and decency isn't much of a man to start with.

kae said...

I'd hope that a boy would receive the correct direction on how to treat women from his family, like manners, the same as a girl or a boy would receive direction on how to behave, and how not to behave.

Equal pay for equal work is fine, I don't believe in affirmative action. I know a few women who are useless and hold high positions where I work. Clueless would be the word I'd use for them.

The problem with many "feminists" these days is that they refuse to see that while the west is pretty much hunky dory (except for the fools making a big deal about stupid, adolescent vidios involving chickens), there's very little condemnation of the sick practises happening in non-westernised countries.

Egg said...

Jeebus, Caz, dunno where to start on your laundry list (I could add a male one, with ease) - are you blaming men for female woes, or greater society, as Boe (an aboriginal male, from a much worse off demographic) was trying to address re the chicken sex tape?
I view feminazis as radical extremists who deserve contempt and can cite (female) minorities viewing them as white middle class elitists themselves.

Caz said...

Egg - I have idea your point, since most of it is incomprehensible. Of course "female woes" aren't the fault of women, it's all the fault of the 51% female population. I assume that's your view?

Kae - other than political parties, who give affirmative action a decent enough whirl, Australia has never had affirmative action for women (in many spheres, eg, education, housing, employment, their is for Aboriginals). Not the case in the US, where affirmative action was legally entrenched. A very different culture, contrary to what Aussies understand!

kae said...

Affirmative action does take place in Aus for certain minorities.

Affirmative action seems to have progressed Obama to the level of his incompetence, with a bullet.

Candidates for jobs should be assessed on their ability and qualities and the best person for the job should be given the job.

WV: actic
can't spell arctic, huh?

Caz said...

Forgot to add Kae: you know things are "equal" when just as many incompetent, sub-optimal, bully-boy women are in management positions as there are men.

Bloody sad.

Have to admit that my sub-conscious continues to "expect" a higher standard from women in management, that is, a higher standard than men, which of course if quite sexist of me.

Alas, my sub-conscious wishes are rarely come to fruition. And why would they? Plenty of men in management shouldn't be there, no reason why the same would not be true of women.

I can still hope for better from both genders though!!!