And I know exactly what the post is about, but I'm not ready to read it yet. Didn't visit the Holocaust Museum in D.C. either...I know enough to know...the horror.
My parents converted to Judaism after I left home, and I was pretty well educated on that topic. But the older I get, the bigger chicken I become in so many ways...
I wish them well, but in reality you cannot "become" a jew, you are either born to a Jewish mother or you are not.
Simple as that. Sorry to say, but converts are treated with less respect than they deserve. (mostly behind their backs) even if they are more serious about their new religion than the ones born into it.
I was surprised by your claim that, you cannot "become" a jew, you are either born to a Jewish mother or you are not. so I did a little light reading. Can you point us to something in this Wiki article, Who is a Jew?, that supports your claim? There is a lot in there that denies it.
From JewishAnswers.org: First of all, Judaism doesn’t believe that there’s any imperative for a non-Jew to become Jewish. Perfection and closeness with God is possible for any human being. By definition, of course, it isn’t easy, but it’s available. You might want to look here for a description of the Torah’s expectations of all human beings.
Secondly, becoming a Jew carries with it a great burden. We haven’t been the most popular nation over the centuries (as you’ve no doubt noticed) and there’s no guarantee that things will always be as comfortable as they now are for us (at least in the West).
Further, while not all Jews are perfect in observing the commandments of the Torah, these commandments are fully binding nonetheless and negligence carries serious consequences – both in this world and the next. We who are born Jewish have no choice and must do the best we can, but to choose it for yourself (while an act of great idealism) is a huge risk.
The road to Judaism is a very difficult one. For a sincere individual, there is the potential for greatness and for some there might even be a sense of coming home. But it isn’t written anywhere that this is a road that must be taken or that there’s no other way to find our one God!
So I would suggest that your main task is surely to seek to enhance your belief in and love of our one God. You should examine all of the options (conversion being one of them) that lead to that greater belief.
They belonged to 2 different congregations - in 2 different states - that welcomed them. In the grand scheme of things, that's the part that mattered.
I live in Melbourne Australia and the syn. I go to has slightly stricter rules than some of the liberal ones around.
"You should examine all of the options"
I totally agree with that, I had no choice, but why would a normal human being chose a religion when its adherents were, are now, and more likely will be even more harshly persecuted, despised in the future?
The point though, I tried to make, wasn't so much concerned with religion as "nationality" belonging to a group of people, of common ancestry.
I don't know what the rules are relating to the off springs of converts? Never thought of it really.
I have no problems others converting, I wish more would, so that we would be strong.
Hi again, Jonathan. The places my parents lived were VERY liberal and - for lack of a better word - unorthodox in their religion. They were the best fit for my parents, I assure you.
In many ways, I think they chose Judaism BECAUSE it's such a slap in the face of the people they grew up with - anti-Semites who put on a pious face in public. When my dad was young he did some research and found ancestors who were Jews...but HIS family wouldn't claim them anymore. When I graduated high school, I wanted to convert and go to Israel and live in a kibbutz, but never mentioned it out loud, nor took any steps but tentative research.
I understand the meaning of "Jew" in the nationality sense, also. My dad taught me quite a few things as he went along. He died in 1991 and I don't talk with many other people about it...though My Best Friend the Catholic refers to me as her Jewish Friend (because I refer to many of the Traditions in our conversations). This conversation with you brings back many good memories.
I often envy those who can submit to other religions...such faith is alien to me. But I don't envy the Jews of today much, knowing what targets they have been, and are today - and will be even more in the future, I fear.
Thank you for your remarks and explanations, I really appreciate it.
Jonathon and kc: Thank you both for those insights.
I am not a Jew and I am not thinking of converting, but I have always been interested in comparing the philosophies of various religions. My interest was sparked fifty-one years ago when, during this month of August, I was receiving "instruction" in Catholicism from a Dominican monk. In those days such instruction was required for any non-Catholic intent on marrying a Catholic. Conversion to the Faith was a desired aim of the instruction, but we decided to tempt the odds and have a mixed marriage. This was allowed, but not in front of the altar. Instead, it was performed in the vestry out of sight of the congregation. My bride often said that she felt that she was living in sin for the first few years after our wedding. Despite all the doomsaying, the marriage continues to thrive and religious differences have never been a problem for us or the kids.
Skeeter - my mother also took Catholic instruction, but they were married in the Catholic church my grandmother belonged to. Does that mean she converted? At almost 54, I've not heard it mentioned, but that doesn't mean much in a family that enjoys their secrets. I think they did it in hopes of the Dad the Black Sheep getting some of the inheritance later, because though my brother and I were baptised in the Church, we were sent to Protestant Sunday School till we moved to a place too far from the closest town (8th grade for me).
You and your Bride did well. We have a 'mixed' marriage, too, & it doesn't seem to have caused much rift in nearly 25 years.
12 comments:
I think I know what you're referring to, but there's no actual link, hon.
Hi RebeccaH
Hm. The link works for me...
It's to Rachel Lucas' blog, she's in Poland.
AH! The SENTENCE is the link! I am SUCH a dope.
And I know exactly what the post is about, but I'm not ready to read it yet. Didn't visit the Holocaust Museum in D.C. either...I know enough to know...the horror.
My parents converted to Judaism after I left home, and I was pretty well educated on that topic. But the older I get, the bigger chicken I become in so many ways...
Maybe someday I'll be stronger.
KC,
"My parents converted to Judaism"
I wish them well, but in reality you cannot "become" a jew, you are either born to a Jewish mother or you are not.
Simple as that.
Sorry to say, but converts are treated with less respect than they deserve. (mostly behind their backs) even if they are more serious about their new religion than the ones born into it.
Jonathan W
Jonathon W:
I was surprised by your claim that,
you cannot "become" a jew, you are either born to a Jewish mother or you are not.
so I did a little light reading.
Can you point us to something in this Wiki article, Who is a Jew?, that supports your claim?
There is a lot in there that denies it.
Skeeter
talk to my Rabbi.
wiki is hardly the authority in this matter.
Sorry I spoke.
Shalom
JW
Many years ago I was in the ARES.
There was a corporal there who was converting to marry a jewish girl.
Asked my own rabbi, thanks, Jonathan.
From JewishAnswers.org: First of all, Judaism doesn’t believe that there’s any imperative for a non-Jew to become Jewish. Perfection and closeness with God is possible for any human being. By definition, of course, it isn’t easy, but it’s available. You might want to look here for a description of the Torah’s expectations of all human beings.
Secondly, becoming a Jew carries with it a great burden. We haven’t been the most popular nation over the centuries (as you’ve no doubt noticed) and there’s no guarantee that things will always be as comfortable as they now are for us (at least in the West).
Further, while not all Jews are perfect in observing the commandments of the Torah, these commandments are fully binding nonetheless and negligence carries serious consequences – both in this world and the next. We who are born Jewish have no choice and must do the best we can, but to choose it for yourself (while an act of great idealism) is a huge risk.
The road to Judaism is a very difficult one. For a sincere individual, there is the potential for greatness and for some there might even be a sense of coming home. But it isn’t written anywhere that this is a road that must be taken or that there’s no other way to find our one God!
So I would suggest that your main task is surely to seek to enhance your belief in and love of our one God. You should examine all of the options (conversion being one of them) that lead to that greater belief.
They belonged to 2 different congregations - in 2 different states - that welcomed them. In the grand scheme of things, that's the part that mattered.
Hi Kc.
I live in Melbourne Australia and the syn. I go to has slightly stricter rules than some of the liberal ones around.
"You should examine all of the options"
I totally agree with that,
I had no choice, but why would a normal human being chose a religion when its adherents were, are now, and more likely will be even more harshly persecuted, despised in the future?
The point though, I tried to make, wasn't so much concerned with religion as "nationality" belonging to a group of people, of common ancestry.
I don't know what the rules are relating to the off springs of converts? Never thought of it really.
I have no problems others converting, I wish more would, so that we would be strong.
I meant no harm and am happy for your parents.
JW
Hi again, Jonathan. The places my parents lived were VERY liberal and - for lack of a better word - unorthodox in their religion. They were the best fit for my parents, I assure you.
In many ways, I think they chose Judaism BECAUSE it's such a slap in the face of the people they grew up with - anti-Semites who put on a pious face in public. When my dad was young he did some research and found ancestors who were Jews...but HIS family wouldn't claim them anymore. When I graduated high school, I wanted to convert and go to Israel and live in a kibbutz, but never mentioned it out loud, nor took any steps but tentative research.
I understand the meaning of "Jew" in the nationality sense, also. My dad taught me quite a few things as he went along. He died in 1991 and I don't talk with many other people about it...though My Best Friend the Catholic refers to me as her Jewish Friend (because I refer to many of the Traditions in our conversations). This conversation with you brings back many good memories.
I often envy those who can submit to other religions...such faith is alien to me. But I don't envy the Jews of today much, knowing what targets they have been, and are today - and will be even more in the future, I fear.
Thank you for your remarks and explanations, I really appreciate it.
Jonathon and kc:
Thank you both for those insights.
I am not a Jew and I am not thinking of converting, but I have always been interested in comparing the philosophies of various religions.
My interest was sparked fifty-one years ago when, during this month of August, I was receiving "instruction" in Catholicism from a Dominican monk.
In those days such instruction was required for any non-Catholic intent on marrying a Catholic.
Conversion to the Faith was a desired aim of the instruction, but we decided to tempt the odds and have a mixed marriage. This was allowed, but not in front of the altar. Instead, it was performed in the vestry out of sight of the congregation.
My bride often said that she felt that she was living in sin for the first few years after our wedding.
Despite all the doomsaying, the marriage continues to thrive and religious differences have never been a problem for us or the kids.
Skeeter - my mother also took Catholic instruction, but they were married in the Catholic church my grandmother belonged to. Does that mean she converted? At almost 54, I've not heard it mentioned, but that doesn't mean much in a family that enjoys their secrets. I think they did it in hopes of the Dad the Black Sheep getting some of the inheritance later, because though my brother and I were baptised in the Church, we were sent to Protestant Sunday School till we moved to a place too far from the closest town (8th grade for me).
You and your Bride did well. We have a 'mixed' marriage, too, & it doesn't seem to have caused much rift in nearly 25 years.
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